11/19/2007

Union Solidarity - We Really Are All In This Together

(The following is a post from WGA member Kevin Droney. The man made it through the '88 strike, and he knows his facts and figures.)

Why Production Crews Should Be Cheering On the Writers

I’ve talked with a few IA guys over the past few days, and they were generally unaware of a few things in their own contracts with the Alliance. To whit:

1) Their unions, including I.A.T.S.E., IBT Local 399, Studio Utility Employees Local 724, IBEW Local 40, Plumbers & Pipefitters Local 78, and the Plasterers & Cement Masons Local 755… ALL RECEIVE RESIDUALS.
2) These residual payments go directly into their PENSION AND HEALTH FUND.
3) RESIDUALS earned working on shows CONSTITUTE 55% OF THEIR P & H.
4) If there are funding surpluses from residuals, retirees receive a 13th and a 14th check in that year, instead of the normal twelve.

We’re talking $339 million in residual contributions to the funds in 2006, and a projected $351 million this year.

But it gets better, and this is why IATSE members should be supporting us as the Teamsters and others are. Last year, the AMPTP entered into an agreement with IATSE, which states in part:

The bargaining parties agree that if any other Union or Guild negotiates as part of its collective bargaining agreement with the AMPTP residuals on product for iPods or similar devices, the Producers will meet with the IATSE to negotiate an appropriate residual formula.

Strike captains have been passing out leaflets at the studios for a week explaining all this, and maybe in a hundred years, every production crewmember will get one. Or, if you’re on a crew, maybe you can just steer your colleagues to this site, and speed up the process.

Because here’s the thing: if residuals are NOT paid for reuse on new media, every union member in Hollywood will suffer.

And since United Hollywood is all about fact checking, please don’t hesitate to call the Motion Picture Industry Pension and Health Plans at (310) 769-0007 and ask them.

Up the Unions!

Kevin Droney
WGA member

(Tomorrow from 1-3pm all unions and all union supporters are invited to attend the Union Solidarity Rally at the intersection of Hollywood and Ivar.)

69 comments:

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but is this coming because you feel IATSE members are NOT supporting the writers? I've felt, although there are grumbles here and there, that the support IS there.

Dreamster said...

399 member here...

Gee, thanks, Kevin!

We're all dumbshit drivers, and without your obvious and dubious comments we'd never know where we stood. Thank you very much. Without artists like you, everybody would be working. Carry on, sir. Wave the flag.

Dreamster said...

Amazing in this day and age of the internet that we can just make up numbers and statistics to support our superfluous bullshit.

If only the UAW boys had had this at Rogue River Plant.

Randall Bobbitt said...

I'm a WGA member and an IATSE member. I work in production when I can't get writing gigs. I'm sorry to say that PAYING INTO P&W is NOT residuals. You are FLAT WRONG. IA members will not be striking because movies/tv shows are on the internet. IA members shouldn't get pieces of the pie because they don't create. P&W are not RESIDUALS. Please do not confuse the two. I'm out striking when I'm not working production and I support both unions. I hope the WGA receives everything they are asking for because they deserve. But you are WRONG about residuals for IA members.

stuiec said...

I would have thought that the optimal time to hold a massive union solidarity rally was a couple of weeks BEFORE the strike began. But it's good to see the WGA is paying attention to solidarity even at this late date.

Anonymous said...

Randall thank you!!!

I am not in IA, but rather a production worker without a union, i.e. PA/assistant. Every time I bring up the argument that IA doesn't get residuals the same way as the WGA I am quickly reprimanded by the other person saying how IA gets 20 cents compared to the writers 4.

Get it through your heads people!!!! That money pays their P & W!!! The 4 cents you pull in goes straight in your pocket, it is extra! Sure it may be owed to you for being the creative force behind the written work but please stop confusing it with IA's take from DVD's.

And no, this strike is in no way helping IA get more, so please don't use that logic either. They may want to show support for your cause but it isn't helping theirs. They are doing it because they feel it is the right thing to do. So please stop slapping them in the face with such brash and illogical notions that they are receiving "equal if not more" on residuals.

Captain Obvious said...

The point is... if writers don't get anything from new media... and the industry gravitates more and more in that direction... guess what?


NOBODY GETS JACK SQUAT!

Carter said...

I would just like to say that, as a fellow writer, I fully support the strike and what you are all fighting for. Too long have we been trampled on by networks and studios alike. We deserve our fair share.

How can we get involved? (I'm in Canada)

Anonymous said...

To say this is 'everyone's fight' - specially after having already struck, is tantamount to the US saying the war in Iraq is every countries war.

If it were true, why did the US go it alone?

Why is the WGA standing out there alone?

Why did the WGA wait until after walking to ask for union support?

But, I (we) do enjoy the condescending tone, as well as the extreme oversimplification of our P&W funding practices.

Skyfleur said...

anon (5.07am) : most unions have expressed their support before the strike began without any prompting from the WGA. The reason is simple, if the writers lose, pretty much everyone loses. Granted, right now, below the line workers are losing big time.
I don't get why you would criticize them because they went on strike, a strike that's been announced for the past 6 months. It's not as iff the industry wasn't aware that the contract was expiring and that legally they could go on strike immediately. It wasn't a surprise, even suggesting that it was is ridiculous.
You don't want to support the writer, fine. However, if what was posted is true i.e. that in case an agreement with the WGA or SAG or DGA includes residuals on new media, you would gain something from this don't you ? whether it's directly in your pocket or via the P&H fund. If they don't succeed, well you will have lost nothing, having not taken any sides but you're not gonna gain anything either.
Anyways, whether you guys support the strikers or not, if they win, you win, am I incorrect ?

Kelly said...

Since you know all the facts and figures, how about letting the American Public know just how much money WGA members were making under the old contract before we decide based on hyped up media reports that the WGA members are being treated unfairly by the "Media Moguls". I think that you will find that other non-union non-hollywood people in professional writing will be a little shocked by how much you are whining about making more money based on how much you already earn. This is why you are not going to get universal sympathy from the public. You want to make comparisons to regular wage slaves about how poorly you are being treated. The average public consumer of your products would probably think themselves luckly to make anywhere near the kind of money the WGA members are pulling down.

Your union wants to parade your case to the public looking for sympathy because another revenue stream has developed. Unfortunately, the company owns the copywrite to the products you are a part of collaboratively creating. If you want a bigger piece of the pie, then leave the company, strike out on your own and retain your own copyright. That would also mean you would have to accept the risk of going it on your own. Either act like most other creators that refuse to give up copyright, and truely suffer for your art, or sell out to the "man". However you go, quit crying to the public that you now see a bigger pie, and are hungry for more.

Thank you for your consideration.

zmortis@gmail.com

Click Here To See It said...

Are you part of the revolution?

David Grenier said...

"Their unions, including I.A.T.S.E., IBT Local 399, Studio Utility Employees Local 724, IBEW Local 40, Plumbers & Pipefitters Local 78, and the Plasterers & Cement Masons Local 755… ALL RECEIVE RESIDUALS."

There's a Lew Wasserman's toilet joke to be made there, but I just can't do it justice, especially not on a forum full of people who get paid to be funny.

See, this is why I'm not a writer. Now, if you need a photograph of a toilet, I'm your man.

Alex Epstein said...

The IA should be supporting the writers, because without the writers creating, they would not be working in show business.

The venom from some IA people is uncalled for. Writers have a right to stop working. We're not obligated to take a lousy deal so IA can stay employed. Do the writers complain when IA strikes?

All the people who work in the business should support each other. The more we stick together, the better we'll all do.

Anonymous said...

To skyfleur,

You are semi-correct. If the writers do "win" more then IA could potentially gain from it, although that wouldn't take place until they are up for negotiations again. I don't their contract ends till another 2 years or so, and by then there may be enough evidence to refute any deal the WGA comes up with now as being fair. To make a blanket statement that they will benefit automatically is as incorrect as saying they get "residuals" in the same sense that WGA members get.

So David G, get it through your think skull that it is not all created equal. WGA P&W already is paid for with their dues, the residuals they receive just go straight into their pocket.

Anonymous said...

If everyone saw this strike coming 6 months out why did the WGA do nothing to try and stop it and maybe save some of the pain everyone, including their members are feeling? Simple, your president wanted to strike. He fancies himself some revolutionary that is going to shape the future of Hollywood. Look at the DGA, the last time they had a contract conflict it was resolved in 3 hours.

You are all being lead by individuals who are using passion to drive their decisions, not logic. Passions great and all but it won't work as an excuse why there are no gifts under the tree this Christmas, or why some people can't pay rent.

The WGA likes to view itself as the primary "creative" force. Well right now all you are creating is a lot of uncalled for chaos and doubt. Good luck with that.

Skyfleur said...

Kelly : they don't need to give specific numbers. Actually, it doesn't work that way. If you had read just a little bit, you'd know the formulas are based on percentile. Writers get 0.3% on DVD sales up to 1 million dollars in revenue, they get 0.36% above the 1 million mark. In dollars, it means they 4 cents per Dvd sold. You know how much DVDs cost for tv shows ? I can tell you, the average is 50 dollars per boxset.

They do not get anything from free streaming as there's a loophole in the old agreement about promotional content. They do NOT relinquish all of their rights, that's why they get residuals. IF they were relinquishing everything, they wouldn't have any say in getting anything but that wouldn't preclude them to bargain for it in a new negotiation which is exactly what we have here. The old agreement is not applicable anymore. They need a new one and they're negotiating every clause.
As per novelists, you know what the standard percentile on return sales is these days ? it's 15%. Not all writers are in the same boat as the John Wells, Joss Whedon, Shonda Rhimes, Alan Ball, Anthony Zwick Paul HAggis etc ? Cause, believe them when they say that 99% of the writers do not share their good fortune. They do not sign million dollar talent deals, they get paid more than a lot of people, but they are not by any standards applicable filthy rich and being very greedy. They ask for fair share for their work. And it is not because they do something they love, that they shouldn't be paid for it. Not everyone can be a writer, I'm certainly not and I wouldn't dream of it. I admire these people for their creativity as much as I admire excellent novel writers. There is for me no difference between them and novelists.

If you believe that episodes that are freely available (and we're talking entire season here) on the networks websites are promotional, you do not know the meaning of the word.

There's a difference between whining and doing something about the situation. They've tried everything to make sure internet doesn't escape them, internet is the new DVD market and there is no reason why what was applicable to VHS and dvd should not apply to internet streaming or downloading. They're fighting for what they believe in ; whining is just some poor souls in a bar complaining about their situation and doing nothing about it. Is that what the WGA is doing ? I personally don't think so. The WGA agreement was the first to expire, then you have DGA and SAG agreements expiring in June 2008, and even though DGA has been very quiet, SAG hasn't been, nor were the Teamsters. That should give you a hint about what's going.

Makeup artist said...

I'm a member of Local 706. If I understand correctly, you are saying that if the writers get residuals from new media outlets, then we can negoiate for that also for our health and welfare funds. Makes sense. Even if that's not the case, I know one thing - I'm sick to death of "reality shows" as a worker and as a consumer. Without writers good shows don't happen. I may not make as much as the writers but I make a good living when I'm working a union job. See you on the picket line!

deuddersun said...

Semantics. Pure semantics. I don't care if my "residuals" go directly into my pocket or into the General Fund which will result in "extra checks" when I retire, I'm getting more than I got before and that, my friends, is why I am supporting this strike. I truly believe that a writers win will help me in the long run.

For a long time many of my IA brothers and sisters have wondered why we don't structure our contracts to come due at the same time as the writers or actors. After all, they are the driving force in our industry and we would have much to gain by piggy-backing on them. The answer is simple, the Studios won't do it. Why won't they do it? Duh!

You can be assured that the writers will win this thing. They could win it even sooner if we ALL supported them. Next up is the SAG contract and you can bet your bottom dollar that the actors will want the same deal on residuals, so what then? Another strike? More months out of work? If we all showed solidarity RIGHT NOW we could teach the studios that they can't win and avoid any future walkouts or lockouts. The Studios will learn that when they take on 1 of us, they must face the justifiable wrath of ALL of us.

This is a critical moment in the history of our industry. Let's not lose the opportunity this strike provides to better the quality of life and standard of living for all of us.

d.
I.A.T.S.E.
Local #52
New York City

Skyfleur said...

anon 7.35am I see a problem with your comment. You're assuming they didn't do anything, as if they didn't try to negotiate. And you blame them entirely without even considering the whole picture, as if the writers should be the ones making the sacrifices and not having the legitimate right to ask for a fair share.
There are two parties at the tables. I'm not saying that the WGA has not some part in the blaming game. I'm siding with them, because realistically I know how congloms work, their main objective is to make as much revenue as possible. And that's what the AMPTP is pushing for. Right now, I cannont side with a party asking not to give anything to the people without whom they wouldn't get their revenue. That's impossible.
And if the DGA and SAG decide to go on strike because they weren't able to reach an agreement either, I'll support them as well.

PS: I'm not a writer. Never have been, never wished to be. However, I love movies, Tv shows and books and that's why I'm behind them. I support creativity.

Kelly said...

In response to Skyfleur, I will agree with you on a few points, and then I will beg to differ. I agree there is more money being made with the internet content by the studios. I agree that the WGA haw a right to seek more money through contract negotiations. I agree that if contract negotiations are unsuccessful the WGA has a right to strike.

What I don't believe is that a group of workers in our society that makes more than an average level of comfortable income has a right to the sympathy of working class America in the name of Union solidarity.

If the WGA wants to disclose some facts like how much money studios are making from their products, but hide what dollar amount share of that profit goes to your members as salaries, bonuses, residuals, etc., that's their right again. Once again, by not providing full disclosure they are the ones who lose sympathy.

I do believe people should be paid fairly for their work. The problem is that people in the entertainment industry, including some writers, are making extravagant amounts of money and have lost touch with the average American viewpoint. When the WGA comes to the public and attempts to present themselves as the aggrieved downtrodden poor, I just have a problem buying it. I believe I'm not the only one.

As a point of understanding, I know that all writers are not paid the same, some may well be earning below the poverty line, and deserve sympathy for their cause. Once again, a lack of full disclosure leaves your public case for sympathy weak.

Thank you for your consideration.

zmortis@yahoo.com

deuddersun said...

I originally posted this under the Daily Show post, but I think it also speaks to this, so...

To the tech writers who complained about WGA:

Form your own union. Improve your quality of life.

Years ago I tried to encourage a friend of mine to form an IT union. He laughed at me and told me that he and his fellow IT specialists' were "white collar" and didn't need a union because no-one could manage without him and his $125/hr cohorts. (That figure is real, it is what he was earning at the time - during the IT boom of the '90's).

A few short years later he was asking me if I could get him a job as a grip. His job and many others in the IT field had been outsourced to India. As a final insult, his company gave him this final offer: train your replacement and we'll pay you while you do it and give you some severance, or.... leave...NOW!

Those of us who join Unions and guilds have done so to combat the "trade associations" formed by corporations in order to fix wages, deny benefits and generally take advantage of their employees. Let's face it, the 40 hour workweek, overtime, health benefits, maternity leave, etc., didn't come about because one morning a beneficent CEO woke up and said, "Ya know, I think I'll do something nice for my workers today! Sure, it may cost me a few bucks, but what the hell, I'm due to retire with a $43,000,000 Golden Parachute, why not help out the little guys?"

Every benefit we all enjoy in the workplace today has come about through the efforts of Organized Labor, and not one has come freely from the CEO's and their Corporations. All have involved a price which has been paid by those of us involved in the struggle.

In America today, with the Bush Administration in bed with Big Business, it is more important than ever to stand by any Union that is fighting to better their quality of life. Remember we either "hang together or we will surely hang alone.

And Tommy Short, you can go fuck yourself. You know how much we "love" you in New York City.

d.

I.A.T.S.E.
Local #52
New York City

David Grenier said...

Before Captain Obvious gets to say it: Deddersun, I want to have your babies. (BTW, know of any good sites for info on the Local 1 strike? I'd like to come down to NYC and walk the lines with WGA and IATSE folks)

And as far as the anonymous poster talking about the WGA being "lead by individuals who are using passion to drive their decisions, not logic" - the fact is that over 90% of writers voted for this strike. To try to personalize it and insult the leaders of the WGA is not logical. This isn't some cult of people blindly following a leader, this is about a large group of workers recognizing that they are stronger together than as individuals and deciding to fight for what they need.

Anonymous said...

The few writers who are making crazy amounts of money aren't even technically "writers". Joss Whedon was a showrunner of a highly successful show. He's not an example of an average WGA member.

Kelly, I also want to point out that many writers do not have constant work. They need the residuals to keep themselves floating while they hop from job to job in many instances. That's the nature of work for hire in any industry. You are not constantly working OR making the same money every year. There is no promised salary growth or even sustainment. Writers who are writing regularly on the same show for several seasons and have long-term contracts for it are lucky as hell.

Anonymous said...

Stop blaming the writers for everything...my goodness what a bunch of children you are. Every union goes on strike sooner or later. The WGA has no contract and you all do. Now you know: no writers = no content = no $. Whatever way you slice it. Fight along with them or don't, but for everyones sanity, including your own, stop whining that "they get more".

Anonymous said...

"The WGA likes to view itself as the primary "creative" force. Well right now all you are creating is a lot of uncalled for chaos and doubt."

Primary meaning first, well yes, that DOES make the writer the primary creative force. How do you shoot a movie or episode with no idea or script? The writer is the only one who starts with nothing, everyone else works off the script.

Right now they are fighting for their rights and futures.

deuddersun said...

David Grenier:

LMAO! I'm too dam old to deal with anybody's babies, (much less make or have them)!

Now as for your second request, information relating to Local One's struggle on Broadway, the link to Local One's site can be found by googling Local One or going to my site and scrolling down the left hand column.

I say this in respect for the guidelines asking for no links, although I wonder if a link to another Industry Local also on strike can be considered "unrelated".

Think about what I said earlier though, about this being a critical time in our history. Computers are changing everything. Look at CGI. Beowolf, The 300, John Wayne resurrected and selling beer on TV.

Why pay a "Star" millions when you can create one in a computer in Korea?

As the technology changes we must be always on top of it with an eye to the future or the will be no future for any of us.

d.
I.A.T.S.E.
Local #52
New York City

ps: Why do I constantly have enter that annoying script twice?

Anonymous said...

It comes off as dishonest and almost pathetic to insist that getting $.20 on a DVD paid into the health and pension funds is not a residual.

When they sell a DVD, you get a cut. Period. If it goes into your retirement fund instead of straight into your pocket, isn't that what your organization decided to do? If you don't like it, get off your ass and get it changed.

When there are idiotic posts from people who want to see the writers give up on this even when it will make a difference in your situation...the dumb posts do make you guys look bad. I'm glad to see there are a few union guys here who get it.

Ang Li Cru said...

Even if you grant the 20 cents as an IA residual, that's split among 100-200 crew people, compared to 1 or 2 people for the 4 cents the writers get.

As a (still!) working crew member whose show is shutting down in a week, I can tell you that this strike does not have the support of most of the below the line (at least on this show).

BOTH sides are to blame for the poor negotiating.

But...

...the WGA withdrew from it's only early negotiating date in January.

And...

...most of us were led to believe that the Writers were going to hold off on a strike until the DGA and SAG contracts were up, in order to create a "perfect storm" strike. No, nothing was officially said by WGA, but this was a WIDELY held belief and nothing was said to the contrary until about Oct 10.

Does the WGA have a responsibility to the other unions to not strike if they believe that's their best option? Hell no.

But don't expect the support of IA workers when you pull the rug out from under us, fail to do a decent job negotiating (most impartial observers believe both sides of this negotiation have done a poor job), and take glee in the "havoc you've created" (which is a quote from your lead negotiator.

-Unhappy IA Member

Kelly said...

In response to anonymous and his statement that many writers don't have consistent work. Many coal miners in West Virginia where I live don't have consistent work either. They also have low wages, dangerous working conditions, and one of the lowest standards of living in the entire United States.

When the Sago Mine collapsed killing 6 people from my part of the state, including several from my town, there was one thing I am noting I didn't see at the time. The WGA making broad public statements supporting their Union brothers in West Virginia, complaining about their unfair wages, and unsafe working conditions.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, and the WGA members feel they are not getting "fair" treatment, it's kind of funny that a bunch of them are moaning that their blue collar Union brothers are not being vocal enough in their support. I'll let the WGA have my sympathy for their "unfair" conditions when they work to remove truly unfair working conditions suffered by poor working class Americans. Until then I will view them as a bunch of wealthy people riding on the backs of the gains made by blue collar unions 100 years ago, and pretending they are fighting the same good fight.

Thank you for your consideration.

Zmortis@gmail.com

David Grenier said...

So, Kelly, are you a UMWA member? Can you tell us what you did for the UMWA? Or are you just using them to try to score what you think are points against another union?

By the way, neither the WGA nor the UMWA issues a statement when one of my wife's union brothers was killed on the job, either. Nor the multiple times she's been injured. That doesn't stop us from supporting either union when they are fighting, or from recognizing that a stronger labor movement is better for everyone (except the bosses.

Anonymous said...

Do you honestly think that a key grip supporting the WGA strike is the same as the WGA taking action about mining accidents?

Here's a hint...

Key grips and writers ARE IN THE SAME INDUSTRY. You seem to have completely missed the point of this article - whatever the result of this strike is, it will set a precedent that will make a difference when the IATSE folks' contract is up and they're asking for the exact same thing the writers are asking for now.

Maybe the tech union folks would get more sympathy and support from the public if they didn't rip on the writers for asking for the same thing they'll ask for later.

Ang Li Cru said...

There seems to be a HUGE misunderstanding (not just on this site) about the below-the-line workers' support for the writers.

I work on a TV show. I -- and almost EVERYONE I work with -- support the Writers in their negotiation.

BUT we think that the timing of the strike was terrible, from an economic standpoint and from a negotiating tactical standpoint.

It's like how so many people support the troops, but not the war in Iraq -- we support the writers, but not the strike.

The WGA never gave "diplomacy" a chance and seemed hellbent on waging a strike.

None of this is to say that the AMPTP are angels in this. They're as much to blame as anyone. But they didn't lock out the writers -- the writers chose to strike.

Negotiations COULD have continued with the threat of a strike looming over the heads of the producers. Instead, the WGA jumped bullheadedly into a picket line and negotiations stopped immediately. Yes, the AMPTP are the bad guys for walking away from the table, but who didn't see THAT coming??

The WGA gave away its biggest tactical leverage -- the THREAT of a strike. And in the meantime, they have hurt a LOT of people.

But, again, we SUPPORT what you are seeking.

arsenic said...

.

the Actors who support the Writers is only a testament how greed and elitism is a disease in America, not only in Washington, but in Hollywood as well.

and if there are any SAG members, or members of any other Guilds, Unions ot the IA who disagree with the Writers Strike and demands, one can assume they dare not speak out for fear of losing their jobs and being blacklisted ...

what would one call succumbing to the mediocrity of a disease and support like this? ...
Orwellean, McCarthyism, Fascism, Authoritarian, Ideologism, Collectivism, Holism, Organicism?

and btw ... are the Actors supporting the Writers only because their contracts are coming up pretty soon for negotiations?

and what about the janitors? … shouldnt they get their cut too?

and how about the guy who holds the boom mike? ... doesnt he deserve his cut too?

and dont forget the sound editors, set designer, costumers, the film editors, the grips, the lab, the cameraman, the film loader, and the script girl …

why not give them all their cuts too …
after all, they got paid for the work they did just like the writers got paid for the work they did

yea i sure feel sorry for a writer who got paid for writing a script, and then cries that they need residuals forever in perpetuity, to carry them through between assignments when they are not working

cant they get a second job like at Burger King like a lot of people have to do, to carry them through the slow times?

actors often get secondary jobs ...
why cant the writers?

not to mention all of the people who lost their income and jobs, putting them into financial crisis due to the outrageous demands and greed by the Writers Guild …

and i dont mind adding that …
most people believe it was bad enuf that the current administration and the federal government have lessened and restricted freedoms in America based on the hysteria of a climate and situation they themselves created, and are responsible for …

the Writers Strike only perpetuates and adds more to the lessoning of freedoms in America, thru censorship, and by restricting the freedom of the free exchange and sharing of information and ideas in perpetuity,
unless of course, the Writers get paid for it …

and they also demand they get a cut from the Internet?

the amount of pennies they will gain, is not worth the price of the loss of those freedoms

the Writers and Writers Guild only demonstrate, how they are another example of how greed, inflation, false entitlement and blackmail, further denies freedom of access and availability to any and all information by all people, including those who are not as rich as others.

its really very simple … if they do not own a piece of the show to begin with, they are not entitled to a cut of anything.

Kelly said...

In response to David Grenier, and Anonymous, I am not nor have I ever been a Union employee. As mentioned in another thread on this board, I am a non-union, white collar, government worker employed in a writing capacity. That being said, as I also mentioned in that other thread I was raised in a blue collar Union family. I live in West Virginia where my community is comprised of the blue collar Union workers who are facing a daily struggle to maintain a standard of living near the poverty line for the United States.

I am not complaining about WGAs decision to stike in order to get a better deal for themselves. Good for them. I am complaining about their attitude of entitlement that a bunch of white collar employees being paid a prime salary and bonuses have. In no other industry than entertainment can a bunch of well paid, good working condition, white collar employees compare their "struggles" for "fair" treatment with the poor blue collar working class with a straight face.

I am looking at the WGA strike from a diferent prespective. An outsider's perspective if you will. There have been several claims on this site, and the media that the general public is behind the WGA. The preceived battle between the poor "little guy" and the uber-rich "Moguls". Except the hyperbole is not accurate, the WGA doen't represent the poor "little guy", they represent a relatively affuent and insular portion of the middle class. The upper middle class as it were. Its the presumption that the poor blue collar Union worker should automatically support the well-off WGA Union member that I am challenging.

Additionally, this "Reganomics" like theory of "trickle down" Union benifits applies about as accurately as Reganomics "helped" the poor in the 1980's. I just don't see the correlation being accurate between WGA members getting what they want in residuals guaranteeing the IATSE members will get an equivalent deal when their contract comes up for negotiation. Regardless of whether they are in the same industry or not.

As far as the "History of Unions" speech I've heard several times in these theads, I wish to thank all the brave individuals and families who put their jobs, and lives on the line at the turn of the 20th century to provide the workers benefits we all now enjoy. That being said, I don't believe that the WGA was one of those Unions that worked to guarantee those workers rights in the early 20th Century, and to compare the WGAs current struggle to theirs is once again rather inaccurate and presumptive. In that the Unions at the turn of the century were fighting for a living wage, safe working conditions, and a removal unfair business practices that near amounted to slave labor conditions. The WGA strike is about well-off people trying to become even better off. The comparison doesn't work.

Thank you for your consideration.

Zmortis@gmail.com

English Dave said...

''I am looking at the WGA strike from a diferent prespective. An outsider's perspective if you will. There have been several claims on this site, and the media that the general public is behind the WGA. The preceived battle between the poor "little guy" and the uber-rich "Moguls". Except the hyperbole is not accurate, the WGA doen't represent the poor "little guy", they represent a relatively affuent and insular portion of the middle class. The upper middle class as it were. Its the presumption that the poor blue collar Union worker should automatically support the well-off WGA Union member that I am challenging''

ummmmmmm you know clearly know fuck all.

Anonymous said...

zmortis, if you invented or created something you'd want to participate financially in it when it was sold over and over and over. no matter how wealthy you are. what if you wrote your life story? would you deserve a tiny tiny piece of the profits of that? no matter how rich or poor you were? the writers create from themselves, their hearts, minds souls and lives. they deserve their share.

Ang Li Cru said...

English Dave -- take a well-written, nicely thought out, five paragraph opinion that happens to differ from your point of view and fight it with:

"ummmmmmm you know clearly know fuck all"

Grammatically sound, and terribly ingenious retort, my man! Well done!

Too bad you're not on the WGA negotiating committee, cos, WOW!, the progress you would make!

Making writers everywhere look great, dude. Keep it up.

And wait, let me respond to your next witticism before you even make it -- the one where you accuse me of being a troll (a label you've lobbed at me on another post, putting me in pretty good company).

Like you, I have a stake in the outcome of this Strike. I just don't have a say in it.

I support the Writers' demands in this negotiation.

I disagree with much of what Kelly has written.

I also, though, disagree with the manner and timing of this strike.

If United Hollywood wants to be an open forum, I would hope that opposing views would be allowed, and not ridiculed.

English Dave said...

Ang - '' take a well-written, nicely thought out, five paragraph opinion''

Yeah well hold on there cowboy, that is a matter of opinion. I saw a few lines of paid trollism.

Sean said...

I am complaining about their attitude of entitlement that a bunch of white collar employees being paid a prime salary and bonuses have.

Replace white-collar with the words miner, steel worker, etc and you have essentially the same argument being made by every anti-Union person who has ever complained about any laborer going on strike for increased wages. Actually, I distinctly remember the rhetoric from the Thatcher government being exactly the same on the British Miner's Strike.

"I just don't see the correlation being accurate between WGA members getting what they want in residuals guaranteeing the IATSE members will get an equivalent deal when their contract comes up for negotiation."

You obviously don't understand pattern bargaining then. You see similar deals occur across industries when union density is enough to demand it. In fact, pattern bargaining affected another GE unit, the ones represented by UE and other unions. What UE won in its units affected what the other unions got and vice versa. It's the reason why there are Labor Councils for the construction trade so that all the various trades present a unified front and do not attempt to poach each other.

Waxing about your blue collar heritage does not somehow prove your statements correct. In fact, they are patently wrong, and fly in the face of what just about any relatively knowledgeable union member can tell you.

odocoileus said...

arsenic,

you're hurting the AMPTP cause with your inane, cliche ridden falsehoods.

How did you come up with the idea that studio control of all revenue equals freedom?

Why is it that so many of you antis are ignorant of the issues, and can't make a well written, logical argument?

Kelly said...

In response to English Dave's eloquent reply, since it's obvious that you wrote such a brilliant post you must obviously be a fine representative of the WGA and their well written, well reasoned arguments makeing their case to the American people about how deserving they are. Wait a second, the well written part was a quote from my earlier post. Never mind, you obviously don't work for or represent the WGA so what do you care about my comments?

In response to Sean who actually does make a well reasoned statment. I will point you to my earlier statement that there is no "guarantee" the IATSE will get an equivalent deal. You show me proof, backed-up up by WGA promises that each IATSE member will get the same dollar amount increase for each project they work on that the writters do, then I will believe your statement about coalition barganing. Otherwise if you want to take a percentage as proof, well lets see a 3% increase of 30K salary is how much vs. 3% increase of 150K salary? I stand by my statement that there is no guarantee, and that if they do subsequently get an increase, it will not be in the same amount per member. Hey, but they're non-creative blue collar so it's "fair".

Thank you for your consideration.

zmortis@gmail

Skyfleur said...

kelly said : I will point you to my earlier statement that there is no "guarantee" the IATSE will get an equivalent deal. You show me proof, backed-up up by WGA promises that each IATSE member will get the same dollar amount increase for each project they work on that the writters do, then I will believe your statement about coalition barganing.

Well, according to the post, if the WGA, SAG, or DGA get such a clause in their basic agreement, IATSE should also get the benefit from it and the contract will include this.
Either, you're saying the post is lying or you didn't read it through.
if the writer was lying, then, they're not better than the AMPTP which has been lying all along...

Sean said...

then I will believe your statement about coalition barganing.

You don't have to "believe" anything. Almost a 100 years of labor negotiation and contract history can show you otherwise. If an industry has sufficient union density, contracts won at one place, in one unit, will be seen across the board. It's why corporations fight tooth and nail against unions, even if they already have significant union penetration. High union density means that the corporation can't rob Peter to pay Paul.

There is no doubt that if the WGA wins solid gains, the DGA, SAG, and IATSE will see similar gains, especially on the issue of jurisdiction. Will it be as big of a boon as the writers, yes and no. In the case of the DGA and SAG such advances will be a much bigger windfall than what WGA members get. For IATSE members, yes, it won't be as big. But you minimize the threat that taking away internet residuals would do to IATSE's plans as DVD and television residuals shift.

Kelly said...

I am questioning the WGA's hyperbole which is trying to get the American public to believe that they have a rightous cause that is supporting the working class public by their actions. Unfortunately, so far their apparent actions have not matched their rhetoric. They have put a bunch of blue collar workers out on the street without a strike fund to support them. They have been moaning that the IATSE hasn't been verbal enough in supporting their cause. Does anyone belive their first thought by the WGA at the negotiating table will be, "We really need to make sure that our IATSE brothers get an even share of this revenue source even if we have to settle for less."

Does anyone even think the WGA will try to secure future contract concessions for the IATSE during their negotiations? If you would like to prove me wrong, its easy enough, put the contract negotiation transcripts out for the general public to see. I don't think anyone will be likely to agree with me on that point. The other way is to do full disclosure about how much this contract means in dollars per member. Once again, I don't think that anyone will give me that point either.

In essence the WGA has been approaching American public and attempting to drum up some popular outcry using empty hyperbole and rhetoric in order to further leverage your contract negotiations. As a member of the American public, not a member or your union, not a member of you industry, but someone you have approached for recognition and approval - I am saying to you that you have failed to provide any real proof of how unfair your wages, working conditions, or lifestyle conditions are. I think that there are plenty of real injustices left in our society at large that it's a waste of the public's time to review a case of "unfairness" brought to their attention where the WGA fails to provide any obvious evidence of that "unfairness".

The case you have presented so far looks like this: You want more money. Plain and simple. You have a means of negotiating for it. Plain and simple. You have a right to negotiate for it. Plain and simple.

Wanting more money and having a means to negotiate for more money is not the same as being entitled to more money. That is the essential problem with your case to the American public in this instance.

By trying to drag the American public opinion into your negotiations - you had better face the facts that without proof of unfair treatment, a whole segement of society is going to be unsympathtic.

Quid pro quo - you can claim I know nothing about Unions and their function all you want. I will in return claim that you have no grasp on public opinion and that you should be carefull what you place in front of the public for their review and consideration. You just might find out that less people are on your side than you may have hoped.

Thank you for your consideration.

zmortis@gmail.com

Kelly said...

To respond to Skyfluer - you make a valid point, there is an increased probability that the IATSE will be able to make some kind of deal if WGA makes a precedent that creators get a share of the new revenue streams.

My point I'm making (which you have agreed to) is that I am highly dubious that share will equal the same dollar amount for an individual IATSE member as an individual WGA member. Thus my crying "foul" an the concept that this is being done for the "little guy."

Thank you for your consideration.

zmortis@gmail.com

English Dave said...

kelly - 'My point I'm making (which you have agreed to) is that I am highly dubious that share will equal the same dollar amount for an individual IATSE member as an individual WGA member. Thus my crying "foul" an the concept that this is being done for the "little guy."

Thank you for your consideration.
'

For your consideration, your entire argument here seems to be based on some blue collar v white collar scenario?

I don't know of any writer who thinks in those terms. And the day they do is the day they stop being writers. Writers are pissed and justifiably so. I'm a writer, and I am pissed that nurses are so underpaid.

What do I do? I make sure everything I write about nurses shows them in a good light. I give to several medical charities including the nurses benevolent fund and McMillans. And I would never in a million years cross a nurses picket line. Luckily they are such saints that I probably wouldn't even have to consider that dilemma.

You can come on a writers blog devoted to the strike and bleat all you want about rich and poor and blue collar and white collar. Try being a writer for a few years, with no salary check every month, and get your facts straight about how much most writers earn.

And what you fail to realise or rather acknowledge is that without the talent of writers to create stories and characters that millions want to see, your ''blue collar'' workers that at the same time you defend and seem to want to distance yourself from, there would be no job for them in the first place.

A bit like saying there would be no market economy without electricians. That can be attacked as being elitist or whatever you shills want to call it.

But I reckon that most people know the writers have been shafted.

And that most writers are not the multi millionaire fatcats the AMPTP want to portray.

And that most writers actually earn less than the average salary.

And that most writers have no job security.

And that people with no discernable talent other than making money are making Billions from those who actually give a shit.


No one is buying what you're peddaling.

Kelly said...

In response to English Dave - It's easy to see that the writers feel they have put a lot of effort into their work. I'm not questioning that. Once again I am not questioning your rights to strike. I am questioning the comparisons being made to people who live at or below the poverty line being made here. You say most WGA writers don't have steady work, you say most WGA writers don't make a living wage doing what they choose. The problem is those statements are not backed up by published facts and figures. I have asked several times for the information here, and all that I have received is empty rhetoric about how hard it is being a writer in the WGA. I am not in favor of big corporations, but that doesn't automatically put me in favor of big unions by default either. What happens if all of your "industry" unions ban together and get what they feel is the "fair share" from their work? Do the corporations share more of their profits with you? Or do they end up passing along the extended cost to the rest of us, the American consumer?

Lets speculate how the American people would feel if I and the people in my "industry" did the same thing. As mentioned before I work for the government, and if the millions of us in my "industry" decided we were not getting a "fair wage" and told everyone how poorly we were being treated by the "fat cat" elected officials do you think the American populace would have a universal uprising in support of us? How about after they figured out that the increase for us would mean a 5% tax hike for them to pay? Would the popular support begin to fade if we failed to make a solid case for how bad off we were?

So far all I've been able to see is how much more you want, not how much you already have. I have to come back and say that for a bunch of writers, you don't do a good job of supporting your case. Honest facts and figures, is that too much to ask from the WGA. I guess that is the difference between our industries, we have open books to the public for accountability, you have closed ones.

As far as having "creative" rights to your works, yes, if you didn't choose to sell your "creative" rights and maintained your own copyright, I would be one of many people in line to defend any creator who's copyright was being violated, and in fact I have defended creator's rights on web forums in the past, you can web search “zmortis” if you doubt me.

On the other hand if you decide to licence or sell your copyright in order to make more money, then come back and say, "Ah crud, I didn't understand how much what I did could have been worth. Give me more money now." Well you made the deal, contractually sold your copyright to another party so they could leverage their distribution process to make even more money. I just think it's a little late to say, I didn't understand what it was really worth, I was unfairly treated. You're trying to tell me that it took until 2007 for the WGA to understand the potential to their efforts?

If having control of and rights to the proceeds of your efforts were your main point, that has been addressed on this board by others many times. Retain creative control, don't sell or licence your written works, self publish, and put together your own distribution network. Plenty of people who didn't want to work for the "fat cats" have done precisely that on the Internet. Many are making a living, and doing comfortably for themselves. When you see selling out to the "moguls" as an easier means of making a fast buck, then I lose sympathy when you use empty rhetoric to say you got a bum deal. You want public sympathy for your cause - prove you got a bum deal, tell people the deal you did get in addition to the deal you want to get. Not in percentages of sales, or pennies on the DVDs, but in real dollars put in the bank.

As far as coming on a blog devoted to the strike, I believe I have been on topic. I am trying to presenting a different perspective on the strike, and how it is being viewed by a segment of the American public. You can consider this an attack, but it is meant as a service. If you cared to listen to some of the points I'm making, you could use some of the insights I'm providing to make a better case to the American people. Think of that instead of just becoming incensed that I don't automatically jump on board the union indoctrination rhetoric bandwagon, and yes man anything said by the WGA.

Thank you for your consideration.

zmortis@gmail.com

p.s. The line "thank you for your consideration" is means just that. I know some people are taking their time to read my opinion, and I am thanking them for doing so. I don't feel it means I think people have to agree with me or spend their time responding to me.

Kelly said...

Addendum - I have been a writer for the federal government for 16 years. I deliberately chose an industry where writing is paid a regular salary, instead of picking one where their is a chance of writing the "next big thing" and striking it rich. That is called risk analysis, while I will never be wealthy, I chose a steady paycheck. Your risk analysis was presumably that it was better to get public recognition, and a chance at big money than a steady pay check. I am supposed to sympathize with that because?

Thank you for your consideration.

zmortis@gmail.com

Anonymous said...

Big money and public recognition? Sorry, no. We got into this as writers to put stories into the world. We got into this because, as Ray Bradbury put it, "To not write is to die."

Can't really explain it any other way.

Kelly said...

In response to anonymous - If you are in it for the sheer joy of the work, or because you have an important story to tell the world, why do you care how much money you get? Seems like a "pristine” motive has become murky when faced with reality. People need to eat, and pay their bills. If you make a career choice that doesn’t provide for those things because it’s more important to tell your story to the world, then why should I feel sorry when your bills come due and you failed to make a wise career choice.

Here’s point in fact that anyone can research if they like. Look up “GS pay scale 2007" on your favorite web search engine. That GS stands for General Schedule and the most likely hit will be the US government Office of Personnel Management website. A “writer” in my career makes an annual salary between a GS-7 step 1 pay and a GS-13 step 10. In conventional terms for the Continental US (CONUS) between $35,752 and $98,041 per year. Adjusted for Los Angeles cost of living $39,376 - $107,954. Adjusted for New York $39,539 - $108,424. I currently make GS-13 step 7 or $90,498 at CONUS.

See how easy it was for me to provide facts and figures. Now if I were to go to the American public and make claims about how fair or unfair my pay is, they can look at the facts and make a rational judgement for themselves instead of making decisions from emotional appeals based on stereotypes. If I was to hide how much money I made and only speak in terms of GS level failing to explain where the information could be found, most of the American public would have no point of comparison, and it would be hard for them to know if I was or wasn’t being treated fairly by my employer.

Thank you for your consideration.

Zmortis@gmail.com

English Dave said...

kelly - Adjusted for New York $39,539 - $108,424. I currently make GS-13 step 7 or $90,498 at CONUS.'

okay so you make more than most writers. Why rub it in? In fact with your guaranteed monthly paycheck and fat pension, something few people in this industry enjoy, certainly not the vast majaroty of writers, if I were you I'd take a step back.

Kelly said...

In response to English Dave, I am not “rubbing it in” as you say. I am providing an example of how providing the facts can make your case or break it. If the fact is that the mean annual salary for a working WGA writer is $5000 I am highly sympathetic to their plight. If the mean annual salary for a non-working WGA writer is $5000 then I may be less sympathetic to their plight, but still sympathetic. If someone wants to live comfortably their whole life off of writing a single TV episode in 1 month, then I think that’s unrealistic. We are talking about using facts as a basis of sympathy. I have given the public the typical range the US government pays people who “write” for a living. They can look up the salary range if they like, and they can either consider the government employee overpaid, or underpaid based on their personal standards for income.

Now everyone who is a working WGA writer can average their last 5 years of income from writing, compare it to someone who works in a government capacity in a similar capacity, and use it for grounds for negotiation. Note with vacation time counted this salary is drawn by working 34 hour weeks, 52 weeks a year after 16 years in my “industry”. Now if someone only works 6 weeks a year as a writer obviously you would adjust accordingly. If after your current round of contract negotiations the mean working WGA member finds they are not comparable to a Federal employee pay scale in similar work, then I think it is fair for that person to evaluate their choice of career and whether the intangible benefits like: living in LA, having their story told to the world, receiving public recognition for their work, waiting for the “big score”, etc. are worth the difference in pay and forgoing a regular paycheck.

This is called performing a career risk analysis, you can use my above summary guide for free, consider it my contribution to the WGA’s efforts.

Thank you for your consideration.

Zmortis@gmail.com

p.s. It should be pretty obvious I’m not shilling for the studios, because I’m encouraging you to pursue other options than working for less than you’re worth.

Anonymous said...

Stumbled on this thread and thought I'd comment. I'm a SAHM (that's a Stay-at-home-mom), live in the Northeast, and have no connection whatsoever to Hollywood or the entertainment industry. I have in the past belonged to unions in my white collar higher academic industry (when I worked out of the home). I am part of the general public.

That said - I agree with the poster Kelly. From every report in the MSM to message boards, blogs, online forums etc... the WGA and their supporters *are* assuming that the general public supports their "plight" in not receiving "fair compensation." I have seen WGA members posting that members of all unions (regardless of industry) should support the WGA and their demands.

Now, the WGA believes they want more compensation. They are entitled to seek it. They are not entitled to automatic "they are in the right, b/c they are union."

I would like to see the median salary plus benefits listed for WGA members - I would also like to see the numbers of members receiving different levels of compentation and benefits say like under $5K per year, $5K -$15K, going up like that.

One point that Kelly did not make, but I will - if you are that unhappy with your employment terms and conditions, an option is always to change employers. It's done everyday by members of the general public - including union members.

dp said...

I am sorry mr Epstein, but there has never been an IA strike. For all you writers that think the IA is going to benefit from your strike because residuals get paid into PH&W simply don't understand how OUR program works. This money gets placed into a general fund. If I shoot a movie that makes 400 million, that doesn't mean my healthcare is covered for life. PH&W is attained by working a set number of hours a year. Not by how much our projects gross.

I am a DP and my creative endeavors have as much impact as your writing. It is called MOTION PICTURE, or did you forget the picture part. Yes your job comes first(only in a sequence of events) but unless you want your work to be distributed on hand out pencil drawn flip-books at the local 7-11 you should have some respect for the other(yes there are other)creative people on projects. Go write books, where you can be the only creative involved. That seems to serve most writers egos since your frustration stems from the fact most of you lack the ability to exist in or even recognize that this is a collaborative art from.

As a DP we receive NO residuals. Editors-no residuals, Production design-no residuals, Sound-no residuals. We have as much creative responsibility as you. If you think writing is the only creative job on the set then shoot your next movie without us please.

WGA should also take into account the 100 plus crew members on each show who are out of work. I know its hard to think about them because most of you have not made the effort to even learn their names when we are in production. You should, they are nice people. The WGA comes across as if saying,"then let them eat cake..".

Please don't insult or patronize us especially when you don't have an understanding of our rules and the history of IA strikes(zero). I am of course not counting efforts to organize a non union show.

The WGA members need to find a solution to this strike before they lose the support of everyone else in this industry. While you strike and check your mailboxes for residual checks that still come in, everyone else is going without. The strike only benefits you-the wga.

English Dave said...

dp said...
''I am sorry mr Epstein, but there has never been an IA strike. For all you writers that think the IA is going to benefit from your strike because residuals get paid into PH&W simply don't understand how OUR program works'

And on and on and on. You missed a trick here dp, maybe next time. But if you had actually added that while residuals don't get paid to you in the form of a check, they do make up a hefty proportion of your health and pension, then that might have made you a little more believable.

But then you compounded the lack of suspension of disbelief by the attack on writers for not knowing the names of the crew? The blatant attempt to drive a wedge in relationships? The subtle denigration of writers in the process. [Not something that I've seen writers do to IA members btw]

??????? I know this particular PR firm are new on the scene here and perhaps don't quite know what's going on, but a little reading of previous posts and threads would have shown you that all that has been shot down countless times already.

AMPTP, I'd be looking for a refund on the fees. Seriously.

dp said...

English dave-

Yes residuals are contributed to our PH&W fund. But Dave, simply because one of my movies may make 70% of the contributions for that year, it still doesn't not entitle me to any of the benefits. I have to log a certain number of HOURS each year to get these benefits. NO ONE CAN GET THESE HOURS WHEN THERE IS A WORK STOPPAGE. THE WGA GETS BENEFITS IF THEY EARN A CERTAIN AMOUNT. THE WGA CONTINUES TO EARN EVEN ON STRIKE. WHICH MEANS YOU STILL KEEP YOUR BENEFITS. IATSE MEMBERS WILL LOSE THIER BENEFITS IF YOU KEEP STRIKING. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT DAVE?

This is the truth Dave, and it is believable because it is in writing in the form of a contract.

It used to be contributed by the producer for every hour that we worked. The producers wanted a break on that so we let them contribute residuals in subsequent contracts.

Learn your history please. Don't tell me that I missed a trick, there are no tricks or word games. This smacks of the WGA trying to play word games to use as propaganda rather than getting to the point and solving this.

What suspension of disbelief are you talking about. Let me educate you on the first move by the WGA to drive a wedge. The WGA itself denigrated key grip Dale Alexander on his letter to the LA Times discussing this very matter. IATSE crews are paying the highest price on this strike. The WGA decided to use a picture of a grip(not alexander) flipping the bird. Then post that picture with his article on the WGA website. You want to talk of a blatant attempt to drive a wedge in relationships? The WGA pulled it when faced with the possibilities of a liable suit. Get your story straight Dave.

What PR firm are you talking about. I have been a union member for over 18 years. This is not a PR firm.

The point is we don't get a check, and we get the same PH&W as we did when producers contributed based on hours. I would gladly take the residual check that my shows have generated over the last 18 years. That is just not how it works. You don't have the support of the IATSE. Did you not read Tom Shorts letters?

English Dave said...

English dave-

Yes residuals are contributed to our PH&W fund. But Dave, simply because one of my movies may make 70% of the contributions for that year, it still doesn't not entitle me to any of the benefits. I have to log a certain number of HOURS each year to get these benefits. NO ONE CAN GET THESE HOURS WHEN THERE IS A WORK STOPPAGE. THE WGA GETS BENEFITS IF THEY EARN A CERTAIN AMOUNT. THE WGA CONTINUES TO EARN EVEN ON STRIKE. WHICH MEANS YOU STILL KEEP YOUR BENEFITS. IATSE MEMBERS WILL LOSE THIER BENEFITS IF YOU KEEP STRIKING. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT THAT DAVE?'

And blah blaH BLAH.
sEE HOW CAPITOL lETTeRS ArE MEanIngLess when FActs aRE ThE IsSue?

dp said...

DAVE-

Blah, blah, blah??? you call that writing? I can prove my facts in writing. Can you ? The blog awaits your expertise.

You instead want to attack my font choice, rather than address the issues. It is no wonder negotiations have gone nowhere.

I have an idea. Why not really up the dues writers have to pay to stay in the union. Like the IATSE does. If you don't earn a living as a writer you get kicked out. That way on the next vote, only real writers can vote huge changes in our industry. So that those whose only creative response is to attack the font choice of others get what they deserve.

English Dave said...

dp said...
DAVE-

Blah, blah, blah??? you call that writing? I can prove my facts in writing. Can you ? The blog awaits your expertise.'

I look forward to you proving your facts. 'Nuff said. As any onlooker knows.

dp said...

The Dale Alexander issue can be found by talking to your webmaster at the WGA. Or you can archive the article at The Los Angeles Times website.

The IATSE MPH&W contract is public and can be viewed by anyone.

Tom Shorts letter about the IATSE's dissapproval of the WGA's handling before and after the strike is here: http://www.cameraguild.com/pdf/WGA-Letter-Short.pdf

Happy?

Another example of the WGA losing support voiced perfectly by your tantrum.

English Dave said...

dp said...
The Dale Alexander issue can be found by talking to your webmaster at the WGA. Or you can archive the article at The Los Angeles Times website.

The IATSE MPH&W contract is public and can be viewed by anyone.

Tom Shorts letter about the IATSE's dissapproval of the WGA's handling before and after the strike is here: http://www.cameraguild.com/pdf/WGA-Letter-Short.pdf

Happy?

Another example of the WGA losing support voiced perfectly by your tantrum.'

Tom Short is a well known shitheel shill. As you are so obviously are. Next?

dp said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
dp said...

You're attacking my sources as a maneuver to redirect attention away from the facts? Are you republican? Where did you get your training? Pat Robertson's University?

Did I miss a trick?

English Dave said...

dp said...
You're attacking my sources as a maneuver to redirect attention away from the facts? Are you republican? Where did you get your training? Pat Robertson's University?

Did I miss a trick?'

Try harder. We're done. Until your next incarnation.

dp said...

Well played. Good luck.

English Dave said...

dp said...
Well played. Good luck.



I don't play. I'm a writer.

dp said...

english dave said:
"I don't play. I'm a writer."

English dave also said:
"....As you are so obviously are."

I'd check your credentials as well as your ego my friend.

stuiec said...

Wow, this certainly is the place to find union solidarity, all right.

You know, when a union goes on strike and wants some support from brother unions and their members, it might behoove those striking union members to show a little tolerance and compassion for those brother union members -- especially the ones furloughed (or worse) due to the strike.

Apparently this is a difficult concept for some folks, who seem to know the word 'compassion' intellectually but have no idea of its practical application.