tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post9192927300470045400..comments2023-08-28T01:47:52.421-07:00Comments on United Hollywood: Letter to SAG Members -- Weaknesses in the DGA DealUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-76729648307721972422008-02-01T18:13:00.000-08:002008-02-01T18:13:00.000-08:00d:Thank you for the thoughtful response. You clea...d:<BR/><BR/>Thank you for the thoughtful response. You clearly know a lot about this topic. You sound as if you have studied it. I have not studied it all that much, other than this real-life case study.<BR/><BR/>So, as far as free markets go, how do you feel about the major studios bargaining collectively through the AMPTP? It's not a rhetorical question.<BR/><BR/>The auto manufacturers never negotiated collectively with the UAW, so to cite those negotiations in relation to the WGA/AMPTP negotiations might not be useful.<BR/><BR/>Do you think that the studios negotiating collectively as the AMPTP represents the "free market"?<BR/><BR/>What about vertically integrated conglomerates controlling production and distribution?<BR/><BR/>How do you think the opportunity to self-deal fits in the free market?<BR/><BR/>I just read that Time Warner, which provides the *only* broadband internet service I can access (i.e. a monopoly) is weighing a move to charging based on bandwidth use. Time Warner is also a major movie studio. So, once distribution of all media is through ISP pipes (maybe years away), and Time Warner controls both production and has a monopoly on distribution, how do you fit this in the free market model (which depends on competition)?<BR/><BR/>There's a lot here, a lot at stake, a lot of smart people trying to take it all. I don't even blame them. I get the motive.<BR/><BR/>It's just that the real producers of the content from conception also have that same motive and at the end of the day, we control conception.<BR/><BR/>What's so bad about a good old fashioned negotiation?Venicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13618983014163607989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-71748746466840669132008-02-01T12:17:00.000-08:002008-02-01T12:17:00.000-08:00In case anyone is interested I put all of my posts...In case anyone is interested I put all of my posts related to the writers' strike @ <BR/><A HREF="http://solidaritywiththewga.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">Solidarity with the WGA</A><BR/><BR/>http://solidaritywiththewga.blogspot.com/<BR/><BR/>I don't know if you have noticed but the recent story told by the corporate press is that "United Hollywood" is part of the problem.<BR/><BR/>I wrote about this in a post called <A HREF="http://solidaritywiththewga.blogspot.com/2008/02/corporate-media-tries-out-new-narrative.html" REL="nofollow">The Corporate Media Tries Out a New Narrative for the Writers' Strike</A><BR/><BR/>Much of this Web log has concentrated on media analysis and union history. I am not a member of the WGA but support you gals and guys!<BR/><BR/>Solidarity!<BR/><BR/>Jerry MonacoJerry Monacohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08587951618702990724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-43788318674902329542008-01-31T20:59:00.000-08:002008-01-31T20:59:00.000-08:00@ Jeremy:Sadly, with the fact that the AMPTP are p...@ Jeremy:<BR/><BR/>Sadly, with the fact that the AMPTP are proven liars (witness the "DVDs off the table" at the start of the strike - oh, and decades of precedent), a hard line is the only stance that will protect writers (and others).Luzidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15862297674415830596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-20674130186388418002008-01-31T20:06:00.000-08:002008-01-31T20:06:00.000-08:00Luzid,He he, no problem. I shouldn't have jumped ...Luzid,<BR/><BR/>He he, no problem. I shouldn't have jumped the gun in the first place. <BR/><BR/>As to what a fair deal is, I really don't know. I'm not a writer so I really can't speak for the writers. I agree that the percentage of ad revenue is the fairest. I think the lowering of the minimum budget for union juristiction is a fair one as well but you may have to give up the rates you want in order to get that. Whatever the case, I think a hard line is not a good one for either side.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11950230024812256179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-52798098925895148342008-01-31T16:24:00.000-08:002008-01-31T16:24:00.000-08:00@ jeremy take 2:Oops. I see you did go back and se...@ jeremy take 2:<BR/><BR/>Oops. I see you did go back and see constructive arguments. My apologies for missing that (oh, the irony BURNS)!Luzidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15862297674415830596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-91611851582621185322008-01-31T14:49:00.000-08:002008-01-31T14:49:00.000-08:00@ jeremy:Okay, like Victor in another thread - you...@ jeremy:<BR/><BR/>Okay, like Victor in another thread - you're not paying attention to the suggestions that have been made, or you somehow missed them.<BR/><BR/>For example, the percentage-vs-flat fee debate. Several posters have suggested a fair deal would be a percentage of any monies collected on ad-supported streaming (which is completely reasonable - if they make money, writers make money, as they should).<BR/><BR/>I admit it's easy to be distracted by the AMPTP trolls (or those who might as well be, with their disdain for writers), but the discussion has taken place, and continues.<BR/><BR/>What do you think a fair deal would be?Luzidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15862297674415830596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-1342599629384972862008-01-31T13:51:00.000-08:002008-01-31T13:51:00.000-08:00I've read some of the past articles and it does se...I've read some of the past articles and it does seem that there has been some constructiveness. Nevertheless, here is a good reason that WGA membership should not be so happy about SAG leadership's statements:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.mediaweek.com/mw/news/networktv/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003704834" REL="nofollow">AMPTP Releases Statement</A><BR/><BR/>So in effect, the AMPTP gets to make public statements about the things they are negotiating with the WGA about because they are responding to SAG and not talking directly about the WGA negotiations. If the WGA wants to counter any of those points in the public, the AMPTP will be able to claim that it was the WGA who broke the silence, not them because they were talking to the SAG leadership, not the WGA. I'm not saying they don't have the right to speak up but let's not kid ourselves into thinking that the SAG leadership's "helpfulness" is anything but unhelpful right now.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11950230024812256179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-91063929713645692492008-01-31T09:43:00.000-08:002008-01-31T09:43:00.000-08:00Jimmy - I respect your position because you're (ap...Jimmy - I respect your position because you're (apparently) being consistent. I just find the outrage at DHD over Nikki's remarks on the DGA deal kind of annoying considering all the praise and "hell yeahs" over here aimed at SAG doing the same. <BR/><BR/>I am certainly not saying that no one has the right to comment on anything. It's even helpful to discuss things among yourselves, be it on the picket lines or on boards. That said, I don't think I have heard any real constructive discussion of what would be a good deal. I have no idea what writers think of what would be an acceptable deal. All I hear is that the DGA deal sucks.Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11950230024812256179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-73653047860787014712008-01-31T07:13:00.000-08:002008-01-31T07:13:00.000-08:00venice:I wasn't saying unions are good or bad. Wh...venice:<BR/><BR/>I wasn't saying unions are good or bad. What I was saying is that they exist to push back against a real free markets. By definition, a wage contract fixes prices (wages and benefits) for a period of time. In certain circumstances, primarily industries and areas where laws and regulations are undefined, unions do protect workers and thereby assist in the development of the industry in question (this is a good thing for both sides). In mature industries, however, where the union's primary function is wage negotiation, it can be detrimental to both sides as it inflates expenses beyond what the market will bear. As was the case with the recent auto union negotiations, they actually agreed to significant wage decreases in order to be competitve with other non-union companies (Toyota, Honda, et. al.).DonKerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09768882518189072289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-12979826877040791842008-01-30T16:00:00.000-08:002008-01-30T16:00:00.000-08:00d and coryfirst d:Major corporations wield the con...d and cory<BR/><BR/>first d:<BR/><BR/>Major corporations wield the concentrated power of the production of thousands and thousands of employees and billions and billions of dollars. I'm not sure what is inherently wrong with workers acting collectively, just as a corporation does, to negotiate a wage based on supply and demand (i.e. free markets).<BR/><BR/>Just as a corporation can choose the amount that it is willing to pay, the union can decide if that amount is acceptable. It's like any negotiation. <BR/><BR/>Beyond that, unions provide a service to corporations as well as union members by facilitating an efficient process for new contracts with large numbers of workers. I doubt any of the studios want to negotiate a separate deal for every writer in Hollywood today.<BR/><BR/>Please explain why you feel unions and free markets are mutually exclusive.<BR/><BR/>The negotiations freely and voluntarily occur between two parties: management and the union. Just as the union can strike, management can lock out.<BR/><BR/>Unions also provide experienced negotiators to compliment management's experienced negotiators. See how well it works?<BR/><BR/>Unions just correct a power imbalance, that's all.<BR/><BR/>How much more of a free market could it be?<BR/><BR/>cory:<BR/><BR/>why are you so angry? if you don't like hollywood, turn off the tv. why denigrate what you know nothing about? you know nothing about writing, acting or directing. I know this because if you did you would never suggest that they are not "real jobs." Writing is hard. If you don't believe it, try it sometime. It's fucking torture most of the time. Many days I ask myself why I didn't take the easy way out and become a surgeon (not to pick on surgeons). But for some reason, this is what I love to do, despite the struggle, despite the grind, despite it all. I invite you to write a spec or shoot a film before you shoot off your mouth. or maybe just look into why you're so angry.Venicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13618983014163607989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-85071195243957864632008-01-30T15:38:00.000-08:002008-01-30T15:38:00.000-08:00jeremy - people that criticized Nikki Finke for re...jeremy - people that criticized Nikki Finke for reporting during a press blackout were completely wrong. it's not Nikki's job to enforce the blackout. If people leak info to her, THEY are the ones breaking the blackout -- not Nikki. <BR/><BR/>This blackout is between the WGA negotiators and the AMPTP negotiators, and no one else.<BR/><BR/>SAG should feel free to comment on how crappy they might think the DGA deal is, just as the DGA continues to say how great it is. Odd how Apted feels it's fine to do interviews touting its breakthroughs without feeling he might be interfering with the informal talks, but if SAG has some problems...that's interference? Give me a break.<BR/><BR/>SAG is not under a blackout. Neither is DGA. Neither are any rank and file writers not in the negotiating room. <BR/><BR/>This site has asked for restraint and has shown some. But as time has passed and more and more people are concluding there might real problems with the DGA deal for writers and actors, it seems completely appropriate to discuss it. <BR/><BR/>After all, it's not a secret agreement about national security or something. It's the contract that all of these writers will have to live with for the next three years. And the precedents set, perhaps for decades.<BR/><BR/>Maybe it's just me, but I say keep the discourse going.jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09996799501347272328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-78330735301956999332008-01-30T12:35:00.000-08:002008-01-30T12:35:00.000-08:00@ cory:Creating IS a real job. Don't knock it just...@ cory:<BR/><BR/>Creating IS a real job. Don't knock it just because you can't do it.Luzidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15862297674415830596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-86020201077166063792008-01-30T09:35:00.000-08:002008-01-30T09:35:00.000-08:00Um, so people criticise Nikki Finke for commenting...Um, so people criticise Nikki Finke for commenting on the DGA deal while the WGA leadership is in a press blackout, yet it's high fives to the SAG leadership (and UH for that matter :D) when they do the same? I am compelled to read this stuff too but can't we all just keep a level head until we have something concrete about the WGA deal? Shouldn't all you writers and actors be on the picket line or something?Jeremyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11950230024812256179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-80418482710141944202008-01-30T09:14:00.000-08:002008-01-30T09:14:00.000-08:00I've been a proud, fiercely supportive member of t...I've been a proud, fiercely supportive member of the WGA since 1978. The benefits (health, pension, residuals, minimums, arbitration, etc.) fought for by<BR/>writers in the past have greatly benefited enriched my life, my career and my art. <BR/><BR/>Today, I walk the picket lines, I hand out flyers, I spread the word about our struggle and our just<BR/>demands -- and I do so not only for myself, but also to honor the hard foughts battles of the past, the sacrifices made for me by thousands of writers who went<BR/>and wrote before me, and to protect the rights and privileges of younger writers and future members of the WGA. <BR/><BR/>WE ARE FIGHTING TODAY FOR TOMORROW.<BR/> <BR/>Regardless of what the DGA has settled for, it is imperative that the WGA never falter, never lose sight of what we know is fair and equitable.<BR/><BR/>We cannot, we MUST NOT, turn tail and run, settling for a mediocre deal that is short-sighted and<BR/>superficial. We have allowed our pockets to be picked<BR/>in the past (I'm thnking of 1988) and we shouldn't, we can't, we must not be fooled again.<BR/><BR/>I know I echo the strong pro-WGA, pro-negotiating committee and pro-Board sentiment of our memebership when I strongly them to continue the fight! <BR/><BR/>I remember that kick ass song by the Who ("Don't Get Fooled Again"), with lyrics that included:<BR/><BR/>'And then I'll get on my knees and pray we don't get fooled again. No, no! We don't get fooled again!'<BR/><BR/>Pretty relevant lyrics for today --and tomorrow. <BR/><BR/>I thank and support everyone involved in the strike effort from the bottom of my heart. <BR/><BR/>You all represent the very best of the WGA and stand -- and fight -- for everything we believe in.<BR/><BR/>Keep up the great work. Let's make history TODAY!<BR/><BR/>Rob GilmerRob Gilmerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00493161564754551821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-32994549173792738822008-01-30T09:05:00.000-08:002008-01-30T09:05:00.000-08:00Cory - unions and free markets are mutually exclus...Cory - unions and free markets are mutually exclusive economic concepts. Unions inhibit free markets (usually for betterment of those in the union) by not allowing prices (wages) to float freely based on demand. Sometimes it works (auto unions in the 20th century), sometimes it doesn't (auto unions in the 21st century).DonKerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09768882518189072289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-88390238129335399362008-01-30T07:37:00.000-08:002008-01-30T07:37:00.000-08:00cory - I understand that complaint. but don't pret...cory - I understand that complaint. but don't pretend there is not a huge demand for the talents of the people on strike right now.<BR/><BR/>they don't get paid well because they are stealing it, they get paid well because the market has shown there is a high monetary value on their work. <BR/><BR/>that doesn't mean they are better people or worth more, it just means the free market system gives it a higher value than many jobs. just like being a doctor or lawyer, or other high paid jobs.<BR/><BR/>you're right, writers don't get very dirty, they don't punch clocks, they rarely break a sweat, they are not saving any lives or curing any diseases.<BR/><BR/>but entertainment is important to people. story telling has been a part of our culture since language was invented. it has value. <BR/><BR/>so if the vaule of a writers product in collaboration with other artists is collectively measured in billions, they need to be paid unfairly relative to that value. I don't think even you believe they should let their employers take an unfair share just so people with "real jobs" can feel better about themselves.<BR/><BR/>every writer I've ever met knows how incredibly lucky they are to have a job like this. they love it. and they will fight to be paid fairly relative to its value in the market. just like any other worker should.jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09996799501347272328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-67693476610426242392008-01-30T06:12:00.000-08:002008-01-30T06:12:00.000-08:00And also, what I don't understand is how DGA membe...And also, what I don't understand is how DGA members can be voting on a deal if no one knows the details. <BR/><BR/>Do even the DGA members not know? Does the Executive Committee who recommended it not know?<BR/><BR/>Strange.jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09996799501347272328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-56024023056525544712008-01-30T06:11:00.000-08:002008-01-30T06:11:00.000-08:00TO ALL DGA MEMBERS:If you vote down this deal, the...TO ALL DGA MEMBERS:<BR/><BR/>If you vote down this deal, the AMPTP loses ALL of their leverage. <BR/><BR/>They cannot blame the writers for stalling. They cannot blame the writers for putting the Oscars in jeopardy. And they will be cornered to finally deal fairly. <BR/><BR/>Vote it down, and YOU will get a deal closer to what the studio will then be forced to give the writers. <BR/><BR/>VOTE NO!<BR/><BR/>(although, it sounds like you already voted)jimmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09996799501347272328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-20878849243491677192008-01-30T05:18:00.000-08:002008-01-30T05:18:00.000-08:00If so much about the deal is unknown, why are they...If so much about the deal is unknown, why are they dissecting it? Why not, oh .. I dunno .. STFU until the details are available and studied?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218324452548804380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-38666028649447126662008-01-30T05:12:00.000-08:002008-01-30T05:12:00.000-08:00You know what? If it is this much trouble to get ...You know what? If it is this much trouble to get Hollywood going, then I would rather not have Hollywood. Or at least, not this current version of it. I hope the writers stay on strike, I wish the directors would have gone on strike, I hope the actors go on strike, and I hope the studios shut down. Then everybody out there in La-La Land can go get real jobs and see what it's like to actually have to work for a living.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-57839416183896110552008-01-30T02:29:00.000-08:002008-01-30T02:29:00.000-08:00As a SAG member who's out picketing when I can, I'...As a SAG member who's out picketing when I can, I'm glad to see our guild's leadership speaking out so clearly and forcefully on the various shortcomings of the DGA deal.<BR/><BR/>It doesn't matter so much so who contributes what to the accumulated pot of knowledge about New Media, the Internet, and what the guilds need for a fair deal; it only matters that we all continue to persevere and settle for nothing less than what's fair.<BR/><BR/>And what's fair for the guilds, whether the AMPTP realizes it or not, is in the longer term what's going to help them keep at least some of the content-creating talent that's going to be stripped away by Google, Yahoo, and the next few Mark Cubans to come down the pike.mheisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11157348738597594888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-24557369424245059592008-01-30T00:23:00.000-08:002008-01-30T00:23:00.000-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.just a thoughthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17659854616726842941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-67326306296533438192008-01-30T00:01:00.000-08:002008-01-30T00:01:00.000-08:00Your Guild has signed 210 Internet producers to SA...<I>Your Guild has signed 210 Internet producers to SAG contracts in the past two years and only seven of them (or 3%) would fall inside the high DGA jurisdictional thresholds. </I><BR/><BR/>Ouch. Ouch, ouch, ouch. Did I mention "OUCH!"?Geo Rulehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17854351487508000198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-22677730694455843392008-01-29T22:37:00.000-08:002008-01-29T22:37:00.000-08:00I have to say that I think about 70% of this lette...I have to say that I think about 70% of this letter is unhelpful to anyone. No kidding, the language in the press release is vague on several issues. It's a *press release.* <BR/><BR/>Also, I'm pretty sure the writer is misconstruing the fair market valuation issues implicit in the deal (though that's a big complication issue nobody's really talked about much-- how to do a formal Fair Market Value audit for streaming at this point)<BR/><BR/>And, as for the residual percentages being lower than what the guilds are asking for in arbitration, well, it's a negotiation, and obviously SAG (and WGA) is entitled to stake out a higher position than the DGA if they choose, but the tone of that paragraph is so weirdly taunting.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12829450636460420354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2462026865900537983.post-28726881134014473992008-01-29T22:32:00.000-08:002008-01-29T22:32:00.000-08:00Amen. I hope that our WGA negotiators are similar...Amen. I hope that our WGA negotiators are similarly resolute. There's absolutely no reason to fold to these ridiculous terms.Venicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13618983014163607989noreply@blogger.com